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Catharina GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b2

Catharina GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b2

Female 1717 -

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Generation: 1

  1. 1.  Catharina GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b2 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 12 Sep 1717 in Stellenbosch, Cape, South Africa (daughter of Johan GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, progenitor and Geertruyd KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b3); died in in Cape, South Africa.

    Catharina married Johannes KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b1 on 16 May 1756 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl). Johannes (son of Cornelis KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), progenitor and Dirkje HELM(ES), a4b5) was born on 5 Jul 1692 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 7 May 1692 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

    Notes:

    Married:
    Alt Marriage: Johannes KNOETZEN, b1 Date: 16 May 1756 Location: Drakenstein


Generation: 2

  1. 2.  Johan GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, progenitor was born on 10 Oct 1678 in Grobier, Tangerm; died in 1726 in Cape, South Africa.

    Notes:

    Arrived in Cape Town about 1708, was in service of the V.O.C.first as a lumberman and later as a wagon driver. In 1712 he was in the service of Maasdorp as farmer's assistant, became a free burger in 1715.

    Tussen 1708 en 1712 was hy 'n houtkapper en in 1713 wa-drywer. Hy was in diens van die H.O. I.K.. Vanaf 1713 was hy werksaam as boerkneg vir Christiaan Maasdorp. In 1715 word hy burger en in dieselfde jaar trou hy met Geertruyd Knoetzen. Vgl ook FAMILIA 1974 bladsy 75.

    Johan Grobler * Tangermiinde, Duitsland 10.10.1678 a. c. 1708 in Kaapstad, was eers in diens v.d. VOC as ‘n houthaker en later as wadrywer. In 1712 is hy in diens van Maasdorp as boerekneg, word ‘n vryburger in 1715.

    Hy trou in 1715 met Geertruyd KNOETZEN = 11.7.1706 d.v. Cornelis Knoetzen en Dirkje Helmes.

    Johan married Geertruyd KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b3 on 11 Jul 1714 in Stellenbosch, Cape, South Africa. Geertruyd (daughter of Cornelis KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), progenitor and Dirkje HELM(ES), a4b5) was born in in Holland, Netherlands; was christened on 11 Jul 1706 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in 1726 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl). [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 3.  Geertruyd KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b3 was born in in Holland, Netherlands; was christened on 11 Jul 1706 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl) (daughter of Cornelis KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), progenitor and Dirkje HELM(ES), a4b5); died in 1726 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl).

    Notes:

    1. Info from Grobler/Grobbelaar Family Register as compiled by the
    H.S.R.Council.
    Alt Death: 1761 Drakenstein

    Sy trou weer op 3.7.1736 met Hans Jurgen Herman.

    Children:
    1. Johannes GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b1 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 9 Feb 1716 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    2. 1. Catharina GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b2 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 12 Sep 1717 in Stellenbosch, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    3. Cornelia GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b3 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 28 Aug 1718 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    4. Willem. GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R was christened on 5 Dec 1720; and died.
    5. Willem GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b4 was born on 5 Dec 1720 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 12 May 1720 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    6. Petrus GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b5 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 5 Apr 1722 in Stellenbosch, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    7. Nicolaas GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b6 was born in 1723 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 25 Dec 1723 in Stellenbosch, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    8. Geertruy GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b7 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 31 Dec 1724 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    9. Dorothea GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b8 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 18 Apr 1728 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    10. Coert GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b9 was born in in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 26 Nov 1730 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    11. Dirkje GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b10 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 6 Apr 1733 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    12. Cornelis GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R, b11 was born in in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); was christened on 31 Mar 1736 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in 1827 in Cape, South Africa.
    13. Cornelisz GROB(B)(E)L(L)(A)(A)(E)R was born on 31 Mar 1736 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); and died.


Generation: 3

  1. 6.  Cornelis KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), progenitor was born in 1660 in F; died about 1717 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa.

    Notes:

    Hy was van Fühnen afkomstig.

    From: Martin Knoetze
    To: GenForum
    Subject: Re: [GenForum] Baie vrae
    Date: 01 March 2001 03:52

    Hallo Gert
    Catharina Knoetze(n) is gedoop op Paarl, 12.07.1704
    Cornelis Knoetze(n) is gebore iewers tussen 1660 en 1675 (Denemarke), en hy is oorlede iewers in die omgewing van 1717 in SA.
    Ek vermoed sterk dat Cornelis Knoetzen se oorspronklike naam Cornelius Kundsen was. Cornelius was blykbaar nie 'n baie algemene naam in Denemarke nie. Ek wil probeer om sy Deense geboorte sertifikaat op te spoor. Baie van die parishes in Denemarke het van die vroeë 1600s af rekord gehou van geboortes/doop. Ek het reeds al die parishes op die eiland Fyn in Denemarke wat se rekords beskikbaar is, gekry. Die omgewing waar ek vermoed hy vandaan kom se rekords bestaan van vroeg in die 1600s af. Al wat ek nou moet doen is om deur die data basisse metdie rekords te gaan, Deense woordeboek te koop en 'n bietjie Deens te leer, en om die Gothic Script waarin die ouens geskryf het te bemeester.
    Die probleem is met die naam gee van die kinders - Cornelis se Pa se van was definitief nie Knudsen nie, maar sy naam sou Knud wees. Sy pa se van, wel jou raai sal net so goed soos myne wees. Ek weet nie of jy die naamgee metodes van vroeër ken nie.
    Ek het op 'n stadium afgekom op 'n stuk geskiedenis van die Deense Oos Indiese Maatskappy - soos die VOC was - en hieruit kon ek my gevolgtrekking maak hoe Cornelis Knoetzen in SA beland het.

    Groetnis
    Martin

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Colin Pretorius at FMX Australia
    To: Dennis Pretorius
    Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 2:42 AM
    Subject: Knoetse/Coetzee/Helms

    Voeg asb die onderstaande by as notas by RIN 19116 Cornelis Coertze/Knoetze en RIN 4281 Roelof Coertzen

    1. Epos van Gert Coertzen aan Genforum op 23/6/2002

    Elmien,
    Ek het jou epos nou 'n paar keer deurgelees en en toe kliek ek dat wat jy gekry het nie dieselfde is as die boek nie. Prof dr. P.J. COERTZE skryf in die geslagregister bls 17.Roelof Coertze , van Gron DIEP (GRON-KANAAL), soldaat in die diens van dieKompanjie, aank. omstr. 1720-29. .........Dit wil voorkom of hulle net een seun gehad het, nl. ROELOF. In g'n een van die registers wat ek nagegaan het, is enige verdere getuienis gevind nie, egter met een uitsondering : op23.10.1746 word 'n kind, Cornelis, in die Paarlse gemeente gedoop deur ene Jurgen Salmon en Catharina (geskryf Catryn) Knoetze (geskryf Cnoetze) wat as vader en moeder ("onegtelik") van die dopeling vermeld word. KR2187
    Dus het Catharina nog 'n kind gehad wat buite egtelik was by JURGEN SALMON.Die Prof skryf dat Roelof (die pa) vermoedelik reeds oorlede was. Dit kan seker maar net 'n vermoede wees.
    Dus het die Prof nêrens geskryf dat ROELOF(F) onegtelik was of dat hy dit so gesien het nie.Hy het sy info in KR2187 dit is die KERK REGISTER en band nommer.

    HEESE, NIENABER en PAMA skryf as volg. Roelof COERTZE ~Kaapstad 12.11.1730is die seun van Katharina Knoetzen (b2 ~12.7.1704) Toe Catharina Knoetzen op12.7.1704 aan die Paarl gedoop is, is haar vader aangegee as Cornelis Cors.Vandaar dat haar buite-egtelike kind as Roelof Cors (Coertze) bekend geword het.

    Nou sou ek graag wil weet wat jou bronne was.As die prof die Kerk register nagegaan het en nie meld dat ROELOFF onegtelik is nie waar kry die ander hulle informasie.Ek sal baie graag self wou sien wat in die Kerk register staan!
    Ek sal baie graag weet wie van die ouens verkeerd was.Het SAG net een van die ouens se info gevat of het hulle self dit nageslaan;As SAG se info in Coertze reg is hoe kan dit by Knoetze verkeerd wees.
    Indien so maak hulle dit reg met die volgende herdruk;
    Soos een al geskrywe het. Jy kry 'n antwoord vir jou vraag maar dan spruit daar twee vrae daar uit.

    GROETNIS.

    GERT COERTZEN


    2. Epos van Elmien Wood aan Genforum op 22/6/2002
    Ek was Donderdag by GISA en het die Coertze-voorouers nageslaan.
    Cornelis KNOETZEN en Dirkje HELM was getroud. Maar toe hulle hulle dogter Catharina laat doop word die doop aangegee as

    Cornelis CORS en Dirkje HELM
    b2 Catharina * = 12.07.1704

    Haar seun se doop word so aangeteken Roeloff = Kaapstad 12.11.1730 Onegt. Moeder: Catharina KNOETZE. (Die SAG gee die doopdatum onder Knoetze as = Paarl 11.11.1936, maar dit is verkeerd, daar is nie so 'n persoon in die Paarlregister nie. SAG gee dit wel korrek onder Coertze).

    Let op dat Roeloff se naam met twee letters f gespel word.
    Blykbaar stam die meeste van die Suid-Afrikaanse Coertze's van Roeloff af. SAG sê dat Roeloff se kinders as COERTZE bekend staan en nie as KNOETZE nie, is omdat sy oupa se naam by sy ma se doop as Cors aangegee is. Ek vind dit 'n bietjie vergesog. Hoeveel mense gaan kyk na hulle eie doopinskrywings;

    Hier lê nog navorsing wat wag om gedoen te word.

    Elmien
    Van Fünen (Fyn) in Denemarke afkomstig, volgens SAG 4.

    Cornelis married Dirkje HELM(ES), a4b5 in 1680 in Cape, South Africa. Dirkje (daughter of Hans HELM, a4 and Geertruy WILLEMSE) was born in 1682; was christened on 18 Jan 1682; died in 1767 in Cape, South Africa. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 7.  Dirkje HELM(ES), a4b5 was born in 1682; was christened on 18 Jan 1682 (daughter of Hans HELM, a4 and Geertruy WILLEMSE); died in 1767 in Cape, South Africa.

    Notes:

    Verwys na Geslagregister van ou afrikaner families bladsy 300, daar word Michael Otto van Stettin aangegee as haar derde man, onder bladsy 677 word sy egter nie gewys as 'n vrou.

    Notes:

    Married:
    Alt Marriage: Dirkje HELM(ES) a4b5 Date: Abt 1695

    Children:
    1. Johannes KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b1 was born on 5 Jul 1692 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 7 May 1692 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    2. Gertruida KNOET(S)(Z)E(N) was christened on 11 Nov 1697 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); and died.
    3. Catharina KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b2 was born on 7 Dec 1704 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 12 Jul 1704 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    4. 3. Geertruyd KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b3 was born in in Holland, Netherlands; was christened on 11 Jul 1706 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in 1726 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl).
    5. Maria KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b4 was born on 25 Nov 1708 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 27 Nov 1708; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    6. Elisabeth KNOET(S)(Z)E(N) was christened on 25 May 1711; died in in South Africa.
    7. Elizabeth KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b5 was born on 25 May 1711 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened in Jul 1711; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    8. Aletta KNOESEN was born on 20 Aug 1713 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; and died.
    9. Aletta (Alida) KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b6 was born in in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 20 Aug 1713; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    10. Wilhelmina KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b7 was born in in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 9 Feb 1716 in Drakenstein, Cape, South Africa(Paarl); died in in Cape, South Africa.
    11. Gerrit KNOET(S)(Z)E(N), b8 was born about 1718; was christened on 27 Nov 1746; died in in Cape, South Africa.


Generation: 4

  1. 14.  Hans HELM, a4 was born in 1645 in Netherlands; was christened in in Hans and Geertruy arrived in 1671 with; died in in Cape, South Africa; was buried in his wife..

    Notes:

    Arrived from the Netherlands 1671
    Ek weet glad nie hoekom hulle hierde familie altyd HELM noem nie - hulle word altyd HELMES of HELMERS in die registers, monsterollen, ens. genoem.

    Afkomstig van Nederland. Arriveer in 1671 met sy vrou.

    Hans married Geertruy WILLEMSE about 1670 in Holland, Netherlands. Geertruy was born between 1640 and 1650 in Amsterdam, North Holland, Netherlands; was christened in in Geertruy and Hans arrived in 1671.; died in in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 15.  Geertruy WILLEMSE was born between 1640 and 1650 in Amsterdam, North Holland, Netherlands; was christened in in Geertruy and Hans arrived in 1671.; died in in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa.

    Notes:

    1. Records in possession of J.P.Hansie Brummer
    2. Name also known as Geertje

    Arriveer vanaf Nederland as vrou van Hans Helm in 1671

    Notes:

    Married:
    Alt Marriage: Hans HELM a4 Date: Abt 1670 Location: Cape Town, Cape, South Africa

    Children:
    1. Margaretha HELM, a4b1 was born in in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 21 Jun 1671 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    2. Cornelia HELM, a4b2 was born before 17 Sep 1673 in Stellenbosch, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 17 Sep 1673 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa; died in May-Jun 1720 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa.
    3. Cornelise HELM was born on 17 Sep 1673 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 17 Sep 1673 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa; and died.
    4. Maria HELMS, a4b3 was born in in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 24 Nov 1675 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    5. Geertruy HELMS, a4b4 was born in in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; was christened on 29 Oct 1678 in Cape Town, Cape, South Africa; died in in Cape, South Africa.
    6. Geertruyd HELMS was born on 29 Oct 1678 in Paarl, Cape, South Africa; and died.
    7. 7. Dirkje HELM(ES), a4b5 was born in 1682; was christened on 18 Jan 1682; died in 1767 in Cape, South Africa.
    8. Willem HELM was christened on 28 Jul 1786; died in in Cape, South Africa.


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